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Appended from Bulletin Board:

Someone needs to define what a player run shop is and can do, but here are my thoughts on major issues that need resolution.

  1. can you sell to a player-run shop?
  2. to items in the shop inventory survive a reboot?
  3. how do we stop a shop owner from using the shop as a stash?
  4. does someone have to 'man' the shop at all times for it to be useable?

-- FantoM - 16 Sep 2004


Having a shop which can carry on trading without the players presence is going to be just another shop - which will then spring up all over the place, and probably promote players to write trading scripts. I would like the idea of the shops being stalls, which players can move around the mud, and then buying/selling items can be done via the 'trade' command.

As for acquiring them - I think it should be based on more than just being able to afford it. Perhaps the player has to prove themself to a stall vendor before they're given a stall, and maybe it lasts only the time they're logged in - if they log out with a fully stocked cart, that is the same as leaving it on the ground and you'll come back to find it empty.

Having it as a stall will cut down on the overheads such as having an attendant hired - the player can also pack this up or push it when he wants to move. Perhaps if the law module is ever finished, or maybe just as a PK action (although I'm not as sure about PK only) it can be possible for thieves to steal from the cart.

-- ProdigY - 16 Sep 2004


I think we should allow a player to purchase land and a shop and run it as a business, something more substantial to stalls. We can control the spread through not allowing the sale of a piece of land. We can probably just auction a piece of land over a period of time when we decide we want a shop in a particular place. Once sold a player could no doubt sell it to other players as they wish.

I think a shop should require either the owner or an employee to be present to act as the shop keeper.

I think such shops should be general stores that can both buy and sell - unless the owner decides to not buy certain types of things.

Should there be a GST?

I believe there should be a regular (monthly?) land tax.

-- FantoM


Will the owner build the shop, or will it just be assigned to them? it seems almost as though this would be a general shop just as any other, but with the player or his hired help set to the attendant which means no trading if they aren't present.

Can we assume the owner has a key, and they may choose to lock up shop when they leave (the game/to go kill things)? Can we assume it be feesable for the picklock command to be introduced for this?

I'm not sure where the taxes come from, I wasn't aware we had a government that wasn't Puma :). Do we restrict shops to a 'town', which can be given taxes easier than in some desert plains?

Are things bought for store prices and then given a value and put in the list to be sold as normal, or do they become bought using trade and given better 'haggle' market?

Can a player franchise and start owning shops all over the place?!

-- ProdigY


I was presuming the owner could specify the description and the like - with appropriate qc through a wiz. I wasn't expecting to have to build an engine to allow the player to edit the room in any way.

Wrt to the storeroom portion of the shop - we could treat it like other shops - it's not a place you can get to. IE everything is on the shelves. This does mean that the owner would have to lock up when he left.

I was not intending on letting anyone just build a shop anywhere. The idea was that we'd open a shop up for sale and let the players bid to see who would buy it and then charge them a monthly fee to keep it.

Perhaps the idea of a stall that can be set up anywhere is better suited to your (Prodigy) idea? Such a thing wouldn't last the user's logging out, might be lockable but not very well and when unattended would be moveable by anyone at all - seems like a lot of work for something the players are not likely to use.

I'd suggest that an owner could buy an item from a player, at which time it might enter their inventory, or be placed on the desk or something. The owner would then perhaps 'shelve' it with a price tag attached. That's not so say that a player wouldn't offer less and then the owner could change the price tag...

Writing haggling code seems a bit pointless, they could always use the 'trade' command. Would be nice if it just functioned like a normal shop while the owner was in the room tho - less confusing for the players. Although the process of valuing an item and selling the items would be more complex as they'd have to involve input from the owner.

-- FantoM - 21 Sep 2004


- can you sell to a player-run shop?

Sure, but that would take tons of coding and effort I think. In Ultima Online you could only purchase from shops. To sell you'd need a list of every item in the game and then the owner would need to select what items he's interested in and place a value on those items. Then people could run in sell a whole bunch of stuff and make that player poor... I say no.

- to items in the shop inventory survive a reboot?

Just what we want, 50 rotas, 200 sets of qgear and demon gear... endless rose. No lol.

- how do we stop a shop owner from using the shop as a stash?

Once it's in the shop, it's there for good, all you can do is change the price. You can't purchase from your own shop.

- does someone have to 'man' the shop at all times for it to be useable?

An NPC that you need to 'hire' when you login to run the shop. Hiring = ammount of coins that won't offset the money you're supposed to be making off the shop... maybe 10k or something like that. That, or the shop can just cost 2million coins and run itself.

-- ImANewbie - 22 Sep 2004 (Coped from the bboard by FantoM)

Glad to see a reply to the 'can things survive a boot' - I don't think they should either, unless they are things that the owner made, and seeing as we have no system for making things that's not a problem.

Wrt to the system of 'shop buying' if we require a player to man the shop at all times we don't have to code much - we just have to support trading between them. That said we can just not code it and (as sort of agreed above) we just let the player pay for goods using any existing technique.

Given that the player has used his own money to purchase items from other players, not letting him use them is a bit harsh. Thus blocking the removal of an item from the shop once it is put up for sale is perhaps a no-go. It does solve the stash problem though.

-- FantoM - 22 Sep 2004

Topic PlayerRunShops . { Edit | Attach | Ref-By | Printable | Diffs | r1.18 | > | r1.17 | > | r1.16 | More }
Revision r1.16 - 23 Sep 2004 - 11:41 GMT - FantoM
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