Work

• AlchemyRecipies - This has been chosen as a starting point

Alchemy

Discussions

Okay so I feel that we need to keep moving things forward and inputting new ideas, so here is what I would refer to as an 'official' proposal. Old page logged Here.

How does the Alchemy System stand currently? What does it consist of and how does it opperate?

I will start in the cliche way; What is Alchemy?

• A form of chemistry and speculative philosophy practiced in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance and concerned principally with discovering methods for transmuting baser metals into gold and with finding a universal solvent and an elixir of life.
• Any magical power or process of transmuting a common substance, usually of little value, into a substance of great value.

-- EmbeR - 12 Mar 2003

So we have two goals with alchemy. The ability to refine objects of little value into objects of greater value through some process, and the ability to mix these objects (and indeed possibly all objects) into various recipies, with the ultimate goal to learn to make an elixir of life.

vial->fill with liquid (water or alcohol)->mix reagents->random effect OR real effect if correct recipe

What I believe is required is a great variety from the current system, where one would mix a few things and get a result or not. This could and possibly should also be a time consuming task for the player, offering rewards equivalent to gaining experience for kills. This gives alternate tasks to the monotomy of kill, kill, kill.

There is no way of learning recipes except trial and error, thus recipes are very simple/minor, and I dont know whether more than one or two of them are working anyway.

All herbs are available through foraging, foraging is not affected by your location, so outside login is as good as on the most remote island. All other reagents are available from shops.

Reagents

-- PumaN - 13 Mar 2003

So how will this be handled explicitly?

Would it be possible to mine the same way people forage, except add a tool that you need? This could be added when we make the mines on ReefIsland.

Defining

-- DevonScarfe - 14 Sep 2003

Recognition

I've a fair number of ideas regarding where I want to take Alchemy. I wish to have known recipies, not just known reagents. You should be able to be taught a receipe and be able to just "mix " - presuming that you have the ingredients.

There are various properties in which a player may become aware of through careful study:

If you just mix randomly you might then study the result and determine what it is that you have made. I think if someone doesn't know a receipe but mixes the right reagents in the right order for the receipe they should have a lower chance of succeeding - this will make it harder for people to just steal receipes from those who are given them.

There are also various effects that the reagent may incur onto the player. Any of these may be recognised as an effect of that reagent.

Of course a druid could mix a potion of healing and give it to a thief to study.

• Recipies should also consist of different methods applied to the mixture, such as boiling, setting on fire, resting in moonligt for three days etc, etc...except for just mixing the right ingredients. -- PumaN - 17 Sep 2003

Refining

As for obtaining the other types reagents - we need some form of mining certainly.

Reagents may not have any effect in their raw state, and/or their effect may vary depending on the refining done and the skill it is done with.

It would also be nice to separate out the whole "regent" concept as it exists now and make it possible for almost anything to be a reagent - thus opening up the ability to use a bucket of water as a supply for a water reagent ( which is sort of possible in a nasty way)

Tasks

• You did not answer my question. Can we use the setup for forage to create a mining system. This would make it very easy and quick. -- DevonScarfe - 15 Sep 2003
  • Not really - it would take some modifications certainly. There is also the question of how we want to handle mining. I'm not sure it should be a case of just digging the reagent out of the wall of a tunnel. Should it come out as an ore which you must refine? I'd presume that might be the case... -- FantoM - 15 Sep 2003
    • If it comes out in ore, it's going to require not only a lot more programming, it's going to require another area...a factory of some kind. This can be done, but it's going to expand our project significantly. Perhaps we could just "mine coins" because, theoretically, there is no specific currency for all of Tharsis. Tolnedra/Elfrea/Camlyn/Bismarck/Riva may all have their own currencies, so we could just say you found "some gold" and add some money to your char. Jewels could be taken to a jeweler in one of the towns. As for weapon metals, we can add this to the smithy shop. -- DevonScarfe - 17 Sep 2003
      • This seems like both a bit too quick and simple, and has little to do with crafting and more to do with push-the-button-and-out-comes-the-candy thing. -- PumaN - 17 Sep 2003
• Rocks and other things can fall though, either trapping or seriously injuring the miner (perhaps as strong as a powerful mob's special). This could make it not worth a player's time unless they have spent a lot of time upping certain skills. Once you get them so high, it seems that they have put in the effort to recieve something in return. Also, you can't really mine for specific things unless you are REALLY good, so most of the time you wouldn't just be getting gold, you'd be finding chunks of just stone as well, which are useless (except maybe a few coins). -- DevonScarfe - 06 Oct 2003

An example of tasks which will be available to refine a reagent:

-- FantoM - 15 Sep 2003

Finding

The mining stuff should be in a seperate topic, but anyways. Alchemy needs to be expanded to include poisons (applied to weapons perhaps) and status effects, things such as blindness, paralyzation, poisoned, berserk, etc. Currently I believe we can support, stat loss or reduction, and loss of hp and while these are the most typical poisons, I think the other ones add a lot more depth.

This also brings into account the task of mining for reagents.

Things to plan How do we administer the poison? Poison types and how they are made (the more powerful the longer the preparation?) Setting up code so we can do status aliments, skill reduction poisons, and making it so these effects last over reboots and logging off/logging in

Recipies

I hardest part no doubt is getting that last one set up. Elffy once told me it is impossible to make the room dark to individuals (blindness) so we may have to alter things around inplay Poison recipies should be kept simple, until we can support living something in moonlight for 3 days...

• I made an anteration to the light system a long time ago that would allow for personally different views of darkness using a hook. I have never tested it however. -- PumaN - 05 Nov 2003

Recognition

-- DonaldKincannon - 02 Nov 2003

There are various ways in which a player may recognise a recipe

I can't remember where but Puma and I went a fair way down sorting out how to apply effects to players, although we extended it to be able to apply effects to anything at all. Eg - dipping your sword in a potion of poison, or a potion of healing, or you or your sword being cursed.

• ObjectModifiers

Study

I agree completely on not waiting until we can do fancy recipies prior to putting the fancier effects into play.

Learn

-- FantoM - 02 Nov 2003

Experience

Perhaps opening a new PoisonS string would be a good idea, so everyone can include their personal ideas and opinions on this addition, as there is plenty of input to support its own topic.

Preparation

-- NamelessAndShameless - 05 Nov 2003

Conditions

There have been a few alterations since this was written, but the bulk is still accurate.

Requirements

The types of reagents you can find now varies with terrain, but most places don't have terrain details set so they are all the same. Some places do - and you can find rarer reagents when foraging in such places.

The most obvious requirement at this stage is to have the necessary reagents present.

- FantoM - 24 Mar 2006

Mixing

Well I've offered my services to classify the climate and terrain of all the rooms in the mud to get the ball rolling on the FloraObject so this could also help with this?

-- AureleaGu - 25 Mar 2006

Storage

Cooking

Results can differ between leaving a reagent to soak in water or in blood.

Heres the basic idea;

• cooking/brewing/distilling/etc is part of many recipes. required for food in general (baked PumaN comment)
• If something is left brewing too long the recipe is ruined.

More on vials, containers and food.

• Lids should be available so one can close containers if carried in water or in combat.
• Food should not be carried in pockets. That would ruin it
• Special recipes can require much more heat than usual and you must find a special container that resists it. Ordinary ones would break.
  • And there could be special requirements for heat-resources that are especially hot and/or possible to regulate (don't have to regulate manually, just that the heat-resource needs to be of that kind). -- PumaN - 05 Dec 2003

Results

-- FreD - 27 Nov 2003 13:20

By defining all such results for each scenario outlined here, we will likely create a lot of work for future builders. This should be possible through the use of well placed hooks, although given the setting of each property of the reagents at this point in time, there should be standard results which can be applied, with the ability to add results in much the same fashion as adding new reagents and recipies.

Comsumable

• Well this page hasn't been added to for quite some time so I thought I'd chip in. I was wondering if there was anyone maybe interested in collaborating on this project to finally get it going? Of course I'm relatively new at coding but there's nothing like a good challenge. It's a sizeable project so more than one person working on it might be for the better. -- AureleaGu - 29 Dec 2005
  • I'm interested :) -- FantoM

Applyable

Alright well I added some comments to PoisonS but also I might add that I am a fan of being able to make your own weapons. I like the idea of being able to mine for things. I think you could then be able to build a fire to melt down what you mine, maybe to mend your own weapon or you could actually go to a shop where you would use a bigger fire to create the weapon. We have a few areas with caves and/or mountains so the idea isn't totally out of range. I know it's been mentioned on inplay boards that someone would need to go around and figure out what every weapon is made of, which could be a difficult task but that shouldn't be an obstacle. I don't know if we would want to consider this a different system apart from alchemy.

Interaction

-- AureleaGu - 15 Feb 2006

• assign reagent attributes to be learned through study
• broadly define different classifications of reagents so substitutes may be used
• create some simple recipes to be put into play asap with the recode
• define correct order of recipe needed to succeed in making potion
• allow for study command to help in recognition of recipes
  • can study failed attempts and there's the possibility of recognizing some of the correct ingredients, or substitutions (goes with the broad classifications)
  • can study a properly made potion with chance of recognizing the correct ingredients
• stop player A from figuring out recipe then entire mud knows it within the hour
  • maybe the key ingredients for making potions should be in limited supply or non-forageable at the very least. This way, players that do know the recipe may not want others knowing it because then there will be no reagents left to make the potion for themself.
  • player owned potion shops. Make your potions, sell it to people. It will cost to run the shop. You can pay to have your own room desc (that will be qc'd naturally) or you can have a standard desc. You have an npc watch over it for you, depending on how much you pay will be how good they are, can pay top end coin for a non-killable (behind a cage or something). You must open the shop yourself and close it (to get your coins). If you leave it open while you are logged off you can get robbed. You can pay for annoucements that your shop is open. This means that the less people that know the recipe, the more coins you will make.
  • make potions race/guild based. different races will react differently to reagents. An elf may get healing from a flower based potion but an orc would have an allergic reaction to it. On the same token a storm would need more liquids in a potion compared to a druid that would need more reagents.

• create alchemy kit
• make more complex recipes for other potions (ie, brewing in a pot, leave out at night)
• allow players to see sun/moon messages (spammy bastards)

Preparation

Learning

Miscellaneous

-- ProdigY - 21 June 2007

Comments

This is all that I can think of from the conversation fantom and I had. It's a start. -- AureleaGu - 03 May 2006

• define correct order of recipe needed to suceed in making potion

• define correct order of recipe needed to succeed in making potion

• • my thoughts on this are that maybe the key ingredients for making potions should be in limited supply or non-forageable at the very least. This way, players that do know the recipe may not want others knowing it because then there will be no reagents left to make the potion for themself.

• • maybe the key ingredients for making potions should be in limited supply or non-forageable at the very least. This way, players that do know the recipe may not want others knowing it because then there will be no reagents left to make the potion for themself.
  • player owned potion shops. Make your potions, sell it to people. It will cost to run the shop. You can pay to have your own room desc (that will be qc'd naturally) or you can have a standard desc. You have an npc watch over it for you, depending on how much you pay will be how good they are, can pay top end coin for a non-killable (behind a cage or something). You must open the shop yourself and close it (to get your coins). If you leave it open while you are logged off you can get robbed. You can pay for annoucements that your shop is open. This means that the less people that know the recipe, the more coins you will make.
  • make potions race/guild based. different races will react differently to reagents. An elf may get healing from a flower based potion but an orc would have an allergic reaction to it. On the same token a storm would need more liquids in a potion compared to a druid that would need more reagents.

As far as alchemy is concerned, I'm not quite sure of the direction that it's intended to go in, so I don't have many comments on it until I know more.

• assign reagent attributes to be learned through study
• broadly define different classifications of reagents so substitutes may be used
• create some simple recipes to be put into play asap with the recode
• define correct order of recipe needed to suceed in making potion
• allow for study command to help in recognition of recipes
  • can study failed attempts and there's the possibility of recognizing some of the correct ingredients, or substitutions (goes with the broad classifications)
  • can study a properly made potion with chance of recognizing the correct ingredients
• stop player A from figuring out recipe then entire mud knows it within the hour
  • my thoughts on this are that maybe the key ingredients for making potions should be in limited supply or non-forageable at the very least. This way, players that do know the recipe may not want others knowing it because then there will be no reagents left to make the potion for themself.

Things for the future

• create alchemy kit
• make more complex recipes for other potions (ie, brewing in a pot, leave out at night)
• allow players to see sun/moon messages (spammy bastards)

This is all that I can think of from the conversation fantom and I had. It's a start. -- AureleaGu - 03 May 2006

Well I've offered my services to classify the climate and terrain of all the rooms in the mud to get the ball rolling on the FloraObject so this could also help with this?

-- AureleaGu - 25 Mar 2006

There have been a few alterations since this was written, but the bulk is still accurate.

The types of reagents you can find now varies with terrain, but most places don't have terrain details set so they are all the same. Some places do - and you can find rarer reagents when foraging in such places.

- FantoM - 24 Mar 2006

Alright well I added some comments to PoisonS but also I might add that I am a fan of being able to make your own weapons. I like the idea of being able to mine for things. I think you could then be able to build a fire to melt down what you mine, maybe to mend your own weapon or you could actually go to a shop where you would use a bigger fire to create the weapon. We have a few areas with caves and/or mountains so the idea isn't totally out of range. I know it's been mentioned on inplay boards that someone would need to go around and figure out what every weapon is made of, which could be a difficult task but that shouldn't be an obstacle. I don't know if we would want to consider this a different system apart from alchemy.

As far as alchemy is concerned, I'm not quite sure of the direction that it's intended to go in, so I don't have many comments on it until I know more. -- AureleaGu - 15 Feb 2006

• • I'm interested :) -- FantoM

• Well this page hasn't been added to for quite some time so I thought I'd chip in. I was wondering if there was anyone maybe interested in collaborating on this project to finally get it going? Of course I'm relatively new at coding but there's nothing like a good challenge. It's a sizeable project so more than one person working on it might be for the better. -- AureleaGu - 29 Dec 2005

We need to expand alchemy. This has been discussed before on forum boards. I will make this a project if I get wizzed at some point. I will expand any prop you want at such a time.

-- DevonScarfe - 04 Sep 2003

• Work
• Discussions

Work

• AlchemyRecipies - This has been chosen as a starting point

Discussions

FishingProp - has nothing to do with alchemy, I just want a new topic.

FishingProp - has nothing to do with alchemy, I just want a new topic.

• • And there could be special requirements for heat-resources that are especially hot and/or possible to regulate (don't have to regulate manually, just that the heat-resource needs to be of that kind). -- PumaN - 05 Dec 2003

I was writing a prop for cooking somewhere, but I think it got lost in a hdd move(another memory note mkay?), but heres the basic idea;

• cooking/brewing reagents enhances the effect and if done right you can expand your recepies.
  • cooking/brewing/distilling/etc should be part of the recipes, not just something that enhances them -- PumaN - 21 Nov 2003

Cooking

Or even destroy something if left brewing for too long. I think I even started coding at some point.

Heres the basic idea;

• cooking/brewing/distilling/etc is part of many recipes. required for food in general (baked PumaN comment)
• If something is left brewing too long the recipe is ruined.

More on vials, containers and food.

• Lids should be available so one can close containers if carried in water or in combat.
• Food should not be carried in pockets. That would ruin it
• Special recipes can require much more heat than usual and you must find a special container that resists it. Ordinary ones would break.

About vials and containers. Lids should be available so one can close containers if carried in water.

-- FreD - 21 Nov 2003 17:06

-- FreD - 27 Nov 2003 13:20

• cooking/brewing reagents enhances the effect and if done right you can expand your recepies. Or even destroy something if left brewing for too long.

• cooking/brewing reagents enhances the effect and if done right you can expand your recepies.
  • cooking/brewing/distilling/etc should be part of the recipes, not just something that enhances them -- PumaN - 21 Nov 2003

Or even destroy something if left brewing for too long.

I think I even started coding at some point. -- FreD - 21 Nov 2003 17:06

I think I even started coding at some point.

About vials and containers. Lids should be available so one can close containers if carried in water.

-- FreD - 21 Nov 2003 17:06

I was writing a prop for cooking somewhere, but I think it got lost in a hdd move(another memory note mkay?), but heres the basic idea;

• cooking/brewing reagents enhances the effect and if done right you can expand your recepies. Or even destroy something if left brewing for too long.

Perhaps opening a new PoisonS string would be a good idea, so everyone can include their personal ideas and opinions on this addition, as there is plenty of input to support its own topic.

-- NamelessAndShameless - 05 Nov 2003

• I made an anteration to the light system a long time ago that would allow for personally different views of darkness using a hook. I have never tested it however. -- PumaN - 05 Nov 2003

• ObjectModifiers

I can't remember where but Puma and I went a fair way down sorting out how to apply effects to players, although we extended it to be able to apply effects to anything at all. Eg - dipping your sword in a potion of poison, or a potion of healing, or you or your sword being cursed.

I agree completely on not waiting until we can do fancy recipies prior to putting the fancier effects into play.

-- FantoM - 02 Nov 2003

The mining stuff should be in a seperate topic, but anyways. Alchemy needs to be expanded to include poisons (applied to weapons perhaps) and status effects, things such as blindness, paralyzation, poisoned, berserk, etc. Currently I believe we can support, stat loss or reduction, and loss of hp and while these are the most typical poisons, I think the other ones add a lot more depth.

Things to plan How do we administer the poison? Poison types and how they are made (the more powerful the longer the preparation?) Setting up code so we can do status aliments, skill reduction poisons, and making it so these effects last over reboots and logging off/logging in

I hardest part no doubt is getting that last one set up. Elffy once told me it is impossible to make the room dark to individuals (blindness) so we may have to alter things around inplay Poison recipies should be kept simple, until we can support living something in moonlight for 3 days...

-- DonaldKincannon - 02 Nov 2003

• Rocks and other things can fall though, either trapping or seriously injuring the miner (perhaps as strong as a powerful mob's special). This could make it not worth a player's time unless they have spent a lot of time upping certain skills. Once you get them so high, it seems that they have put in the effort to recieve something in return. Also, you can't really mine for specific things unless you are REALLY good, so most of the time you wouldn't just be getting gold, you'd be finding chunks of just stone as well, which are useless (except maybe a few coins). -- DevonScarfe - 06 Oct 2003

Rocks and other things can fall though, either trapping or seriously injuring the miner (perhaps as strong as a powerful mob's special). This could make it not worth a player's time unless they have spent a lot of time upping certain skills. Once you get them so high, it seems that they have put in the effort to recieve something in return. Also, you can't really mine for specific things unless you are REALLY good, so most of the time you wouldn't just be getting gold, you'd be finding chunks of just stone as well, which are useless (except maybe a few coins).

-- DevonScarfe - 06 Oct 2003

Rocks and other things can fall though, either trapping or seriously injuring the miner (perhaps as strong as a powerful mob's special). This could make it not worth a player's time unless they have spent a lot of time upping certain skills. Once you get them so high, it seems that they have put in the effort to recieve something in return. Also, you can't really mine for specific things unless you are REALLY good, so most of the time you wouldn't just be getting gold, you'd be finding chunks of just stone as well, which are useless (except maybe a few coins).

-- DevonScarfe - 06 Oct 2003

• Recipies should also consist of different methods applied to the mixture, such as boiling, setting on fire, resting in moonligt for three days etc, etc...except for just mixing the right ingredients. -- PumaN - 17 Sep 2003

• • • • This seems like both a bit too quick and simple, and has little to do with crafting and more to do with push-the-button-and-out-comes-the-candy thing. -- PumaN - 17 Sep 2003

• • • If it comes out in ore, it's going to require not only a lot more programming, it's going to require another area...a factory of some kind. This can be done, but it's going to expand our project significantly. Perhaps we could just "mine coins" because, theoretically, there is no specific currency for all of Tharsis. Tolnedra/Elfrea/Camlyn/Bismarck/Riva may all have their own currencies, so we could just say you found "some gold" and add some money to your char. Jewels could be taken to a jeweler in one of the towns. As for weapon metals, we can add this to the smithy shop. -- DevonScarfe - 17 Sep 2003

• • Not really - it would take some modifications certainly. There is also the question of how we want to handle mining. I'm not sure it should be a case of just digging the reagent out of the wall of a tunnel. Should it come out as an ore which you must refine? I'd presume that might be the case... -- FantoM - 15 Sep 2003

• You did not answer my question. Can we use the setup for forage to create a mining system. This would make it very easy and quick. -- DevonScarfe - 15 Sep 2003

I've a fair number of ideas regarding where I want to take Alchemy. I wish to have known recipies, not just known reagents. You should be able to be taught a receipe and be able to just "mix " - presuming that you have the ingredients.

If you just mix randomly you might then study the result and determine what it is that you have made. I think if someone doesn't know a receipe but mixes the right reagents in the right order for the receipe they should have a lower chance of succeeding - this will make it harder for people to just steal receipes from those who are given them.

Of course a druid could mix a potion of healing and give it to a thief to study.

As for obtaining the other types reagents - we need some form of mining certainly.

It would also be nice to separate out the whole "regent" concept as it exists now and make it possible for almost anything to be a reagent - thus opening up the ability to use a bucket of water as a supply for a water reagent ( which is sort of possible in a nasty way)

-- FantoM - 15 Sep 2003

Would it be possible to mine the same way people forage, except add a tool that you need? This could be added when we make the mines on ReefIsland.

-- DevonScarfe - 14 Sep 2003

We need to expand alchemy. This has been discussed before on forum boards. I will make this a project if I get wizzed at some point. I will expand any prop you want at such a time.

-- DevonScarfe - 04 Sep 2003

vial->fill with liquid (water or alcohol)->mix reagents->random effect OR real effect if correct recipe

There is no way of learning recipes except trial and error, thus recipes are very simple/minor, and I dont know whether more than one or two of them are working anyway.

All herbs are available through foraging, foraging is not affected by your location, so outside login is as good as on the most remote island. All other reagents are available from shops.

-- PumaN - 13 Mar 2003

%META:TOPICINFO{author="EmbeR" date="1047443820" format="1.0" version="1.1"}% %META:TOPICPARENT{name="WebHome"}% How does the Alchemy System stand currently? What does it consist of and how does it opperate?

-- EmbeR - 12 Mar 2003